Wednesday, 04 November 2015 03:11

Abbott was right on something

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Abbott Was Right On Something

Before his departure Abbott made a comment supporting the West Australian Government closing 150 Aboriginal settlements

which were located far from supporting services, were occupied by only a few people, were very expensive to maintain because the Aboriginal people there expected Western style facilities and not the bark shelter their forebears had before Europeans arrived, and children brought up in these places were enormously disadvantaged. The following is part of what Andrew Bolt said.

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This is what Abbott last week tried to discuss. Taxpayers now spend $43,500 on every Aboriginal man, woman and child, according to the Productivity Commission.

That’s more than double the $20,900 a head we spend on other Australians.

In the four Labor years to 2012-13, government funding for Aborigines went up 10.4 per cent per person.

Yet as spending went up, Aboriginal welfare generally went down or sideways.

According to the latest Closing the Gap report, there was “limited progress” in improving life expectancy, “no overall improvement in indigenous reading and numeracy since 2008”, and “a decline in employment outcomes since the 2008 baseline”.

Clearly, the problem isn’t the money, it’s the culture.

Or as Abbott put it last week: “If people choose to live miles away from where there’s a school ... if people choose to live where there are no jobs, ­obviously it’s very, very difficult to close the gap.”

So should governments spend so much money on guaranteed failure?

In Abbott’s words: “What we can’t do is endlessly subsidise lifestyle choices if those lifestyle choices are not conducive to the kind of full participation in Australian society that everyone should have.”

It was that phrase “lifestyle choices” which set off Aboriginal leaders and the Left.

How dare Abbott believe that Aborigines had a choice in how and where they lived?

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Full Bolt report here

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/andrew-bolt/aboriginal-leaders-miss-the-point--they-need-a-man-like-tony-abbott-behind-them/news-story/549fe28089059f1bbd275d148d1a2b95

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Following are some of the comments people made in response to Bolt’s article, just a few of the half a thousand or so.

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I wonder what would have happened to the Aboriginals if the Chinese, Portuguese or Spanish got here and settled before the British? Maybe a different story, a worse one most probably for the Aboriginals.

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Any culture belongs to a time and a place.  No culture has any intrinsic value apart from the time and place.   Just in case some people have not noticed, things do change.  The world now is not the world of 40,000 years ago or 70 years ago.  Traditional aboriginal culture was that of a nomadic hunter gatherer. How many possess the necessary skills to live thus anymore.   Their much vaunted "attachment to the land" grew out of that.  To pretend otherwise is rubbish.

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That's right.  I'm pretty sure they also lived without money back then so there really is no need for subsidies.  To live a truly traditional lifestyle means you don't need anything from anyone. 

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In today’s world Aboriginals will never ever say thanks for all they do get, or that they have enough and can now support themselves. This is a problem that can never be fixed by either side.

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The problem is that Tony Abbott is not part of the Aboriginal industry.

The people making the most noise are the ones that have done very well from the dogs breakfast that aboriginal policy has been for the last 30 years, and they don’t want it to change.

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When will this end.  The same arguments have been brought up for generations, stolen people, racial discrimination, white invasions.  Many, many millions of taxpayer’s dollars spent.  And what has been the result.  I think your story, says it all, it is not in the interest of certain sections of the community to get any positive outcomes. So let’s just stop all the aid, and see if anyone is any worse off. 

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I would guess that most everyone that has chosen to make comment on this site has little experience of what goes on in remote locations in Australia. Having lived and worked in these areas I've seen the flying doctor fly 1000ks to remote locations in the middle of the desert by night landing by the light of a single vehicle to picking up drunken men or their women and kids who have had the crap beaten out of them. The only "food" that makes it that far is stacks of alcohol the place is a mess, there's no pride and absolutely no hope for these communities so please spare TA your sanctimonious BD about an his PC observation about 'Lifestyle choice' believe me most of you basket weavers really have no idea.

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Gary, you are absolutely right. Culture? Zero. Dysfunction? 100%. And the Aboriginal bureaucracy perpetuate the problem with their absolute refusal to put that which creates functional people over their stance that culture conquers all. Pity the children.

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I had the privilege of sitting with a traditional owner in Arnhem Land recently on her land listening to her vast knowledge of our country.  I asked her if she was to be taken off her land and relocated for any reason what that would be like.  She said it would be like being in a concentration camp like in the war.  There would be a constant sense of loss and shame as the very essence of her being would be removed.  This very lady Tony visited and spent time with on his one week in an Aboriginal community.  Obviously it wasn't long enough to really hear. 

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Too much hyperbole and too little facts. Nobody has said that anyone will lose their heritage, memories, food or language. How could an elder compare a concentration camp with anything else as I'm certain she has never been in one.

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This elder has met people from all over the world and been to Europe and been told first hand by relatives of people who were in these camps what these camps were like.    

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Oh! A hard done by, economically disadvantaged, and racially discriminated against Aboriginal has been to Europe, has he?

Gee, life must be tough on the white fella's handouts.

The only overseas trip I've ever been on was to Tassie.

Nowadays, I'm lucky if I can get down to the coast with a thermos and cut lunch.

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Travelled the World?  Sounds like a wonderful life in between working hard for the people and I am sure it helps a lot of people understand things so much better than they did before. I have been overseas to Fraser Island twice!

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This romanticised idea that Aboriginal peoples living in remote outback regions are in some form of urban utopia, is quite truly bizarre.

Gary, (in the post above) exposes the problem for what it is - a bloody disgrace.

And it's been made a disgrace because of leftist PC bulls**t portraying the Aboriginal as some form of noble savage, and allowing generations of his children to grow up believing that the white fella owes them something.

Until European settlement, Aborigines lived in these remote locations without any form of financial assistance. If they wish to continue in this vein then that's fine by me, only let them do it without being subsidised by the taxpayer.

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This is getting ridiculous.  Ok, acknowledge that there were one group of people here first.  Righto.  Well now there are others.  I was born here and I consider myself Australian and I don't think I should have to pay for the privilege of calling myself so.  I also believe that others who come to Australia and are not necessarily born here are also Australian if they choose to live and contribute to country and become naturalised.  Aborigines are Australian, I'm Australian and new Australians are Australian.  

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Well said, is there any country in the world that has only the original inhabitants living there?

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Abbott is simply pointing out the "bleedin' obvious". The waste must stop and our aid must be targeted at those who most need it.

Try looking at the message. Someone living in a tiny community miles from anywhere chooses to do it and in most cases have relatives elsewhere who chose to leave.

There are tribal aboriginals in receipt of great wealth from the mining industry who choose to live as they always have. And who contribute to the statistics used to diminish all other Australians.

Let’s get real. Let’s find ways to help those who will accept it and give their kids a future.

We can still help the small communities, but it isn't a way forward.

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Excellent article, and how very true.  PM Tony Abbott has had the courage to bring this issue out into the open that has been laying dormant for so many years. All Australians whether they are white indigenous Australians or black indigenous Australians should be treated equally with one law and the one welfare regulations for all.   This should also apply to new Australians who have chosen Australia as their new permanent home.  We should be a united one race, integrate into the community without any segregation.  It is irrelevant as to who was first to inhabit our country, everyone at some time in history has come from other foreign land black and white alike.  Today there is a significant number of Australians who conveniently use their small percentage of their aboriginal heritage to gain benefits physical and monetary as if it is the God given right.  This is definitely an issue that needs to be reassessed.  Thank you to our forwarding thinking Prime Minister Tony Abbott for having the courage to put this issue out there for discussion.  Hopefully it will not stop there and that in the near future ALL Australians will be on a level playing field. 

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Obviously a lot of indigenous people in remote locations would be better located near a city that can offer better job prospects and simplify the provision of acceptable housing and services and schools. The over arching problem on indigenous affairs is that the various leadership indigenous groups can't reach agreement on anything and that will also make it impossible to reach agreement on the form of the statement of indigenous recognition in the Constitution. No matter what is put in the constitution the indigenous people will never be satisfied.

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The simple fact of the matter is that it is a choice for them. They can continue living on their traditional lands or move to where there are jobs, schools etc.

150 remote communities with an average of 8 people. People think spending $85,000 per person before welfare payments to keep these communities going is a good thing? Necessary?

What about the increases in spending on aboriginal welfare yet no closing the gap?

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So when he is told by many, many Aboriginals that his choice of words was offensive to them and he not only refuses to apologise but continues to use those very same words? Is that knowing better, or just plain pig-headedness?

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I just wonder how "many many" of the so called offended aborigines have ever been past Penrith?

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Socialism will never achieve Aboriginal participation in our broader society. Socialism will only achieve a constant and endless flow of welfare. Socialism will only take all own responsibility away even that bit what might be still there.

It showed that the Elders are already willing to support their own destruction. 

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In over 200 years nothing worthwhile has happened, and i doubt it ever will. i think the aborigine people should be given the choice to join the rest of Australia, or go their own way  ( minus our 'handouts' ) like they did for millions of years before 'the whiteman' arrived here.

It is like everybody is just banging their head against a wall - ad nauseum.

The vast majority of their 'achievers' in the white man’s world, whether it be academically, or otherwise are only part aboriginal, in the vast majority of cases.

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It really is no point speaking as an adult to the likes of you.  Abbott has spent far more time with Aboriginal communities than any politician that i can remember, yet you resort to name calling because of your hatred of the man, not about what he wants us all to talk about.  Throwing endless money at remote communities is not going to bridge the gap.  The fact double the money is spent on an aboriginal compared to the rest of us, must show you we have to change the way things are done about Aboriginal education etc or they will never catch up to the rest of Australians.  But your puerile attacks on Abbott and anything he says are the problem.. about time you got over your self....

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Fancy finding myself agreeing with Abbott, funding to Aboriginal issues needs to be looked at, and I believe only genuine (100%) Aboriginals should be receiving funding in any way shape or form, pseudo aboriginals (my mother travelled in a train with one, so now I feel as one with them) should immediately be cut, followed by any who have any other past nationality in their family history,....making them exactly like the rest of us

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I get sick and tired of this first people argument. It gets trotted out to justify spending millions/billions on a worthless group of people who don't want to work.

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When will the indigenous community learn? As long as we think you hate us, we will not vote YES to the referendum. Another own goal.

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Remember ATSIC another entity created to help the Indigenous and look at what happened there.
The only ones who benefited from it was the ones running the land councils.
Houses were built in the communities to improve how they lived and they trashed the places within a year.

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And we have such equality that my children recently brought a note home from school from Target.....incentives for indigenous Australians to get a career with Target. My children are indigenous to this country however I feel that the discrimination is rife and they are excluded from applying for these jobs. Why?

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So we endlessly subsidize the Aboriginal  way of life  with all the health issues, the children neglected and uneducated with no opportunities and bound to repeat the cycle of abuse and neglect? Are you out of your mind.... NO. How about that? I don't want to spend money on this anymore... If you think that we are preserving any sort of heritage by doing nothing, you are wrong. What we are preserving is alcoholism, abuse and violence, and zero futures for the children. That to me is wrong. And it is wrong for the aboriginal parents to believe that they can live anywhere and thereby putting children at further risk. 

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You feel free to keep apologising (see: paying endless taxes in subsidies) to Aborigines for something done by others (see: not me) over 200 hundred years ago. Just keep your grubby, left-wing entitilist fingers off my taxes. I pay enough.

And a bigger form of racism is this. Why don't modern immigrants get treated as invaders and murderers of Aboriginal culture, but western descent Australians born here do? I didn't come here with muskets to murder Aborigines 200 odd years ago, but in the eyes if the left wing hand wringers I have to endlessly apologise and feel sorry for what was done. Why not Aamir who runs the local Pakistani take away who came here 5 years ago?

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Preserving their way of life? Sexual abuse, the worst rate of contagious ear infections, malnutrition and violence mixed with no schooling? Are you delusional? If you are referring to the Aboriginal way of life from 200 years ago, that largely doesn't exist anymore. What we have left is unworkable for the future of the race. Abbott is right; if you choose to live 400 km away from the nearest town (which may only be a few hundred people ) then it becomes impossible and irrational to administer any sort of health/education service. It IS a lifestyle choice when you can decide to be closer to services, or you decide not to. But the Aboriginal community needs to understand that they can't live wherever they like and still expect to be supported by all government services. This fact applies to everyone -

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Yes and my ancestors were chased all over Europe by cavemen many years ago. Am I a victim? Who is going to say sorry to me and pay massive amounts of  compensation. Don't laugh, it's just as relevant today as your argument  is. The fact is that you've got nothing without the comfortable coat of victimhood and it's in your interests to promote that.

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Much like Islam I see very little to admire with their culture, it barely existed in any way being mostly small tribes dotted around the country and very primitive.  They claim we invaded this country but history tells you the British arrived here with no resistance of any form of representation from these people .... if they thought their culture is so wonderful why not put up a fight when they arrived or was their culture so primitive that they could not organise an Emu raffle ?

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But how to make this work in 2015 is surely not by squats set up thousands of kms away from services?  Can we look at the practical aspects of servicing the communities - or do we leave them to their own devices? I heard a young Aboriginal boy being interviewed on radio recently and he stated that he sniffed glue, deodorant and petrol because "I didn't feel hungry any more". 

Glad that his parents and grandparents might want to camp on traditional land - good on them. But what about the kids..... maybe in 2015 some of them would like a bit of a go and have their own choice about how they live. The current scenario sees poverty repeated again and again through the generations. Do you think that this supports their traditional way of life? 

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Not only does he want to bridge the gap but he wants to make sure every cent we spend is benefitting their entire communities (instead of the few individuals ).

More money is spent on individual aborigines than any other Australian, they have certain privileges that none of the white Australian can ever hope for, especially when it comes to the law, employment, education, financial matters and many MANY other facets of society and all we ever get is the same story.

We give them more respect than they give themselves, I don't think there is anything else anyone can do here.

All we are saying is "hey, we are happy to give but you also need to try and help yourselves". I believe that if you choose to live where there are no amenities (like their ancestors did) then perhaps you should live like your ancestors" at no cost to taxpayers and that (by the way) applies to anyone who makes a lifestyle choice which inadvertently (or otherwise) impacts the taxpayers (irrespective of colour, race, gender, political inclination and any other stupid reason anyone might want to use to politicize my comment).

Remember that 8 out of 10 taxpayers work entirely to support the welfare system in this country and this has to change across the entire spectrum

We can't continue "shifting the mountain" because Mohammad chooses not only to stay put but to move away from the mountain.

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Read 3471 times Last modified on Tuesday, 03 November 2015 05:19

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